On 2023-03-24, Polarian <polarian@polarian.dev> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> IIRC you're UK based aren't you? Which ISP?
>
> If I had known this, the email I just sent in response would have been
> more direct :/ whoops...
>
>> If the ISP is using Openreach's FTTP you will need to use their ONT
>> which will act as a bridge, then you use your own or an ISP-provided
>> router connected over ethernet. Typically it's PPPoE though the
>> backhaul supports plain ethernet and some ISPs (notably Sky) use it,
>> normally with DHCP. The ONT is not user-configurable and you have to
>> use it.
>
> Openreach has nothing to do with this thankfully, apart from being
> arseholes when it comes to limiting upload speeds.
The available upload speeds are down to the technology used.
> I will quote the other comment here now because I will discuss it too.
>
>> Non-Openreach-based vary. If you're lucky you might get pppoe out of
>> the ONT and be able to connect your own router (likely with at least
>> some of the ISPs selling CityFibre-based lines). Some others are
>> often much more locked down - if you're lucky you might get to put
>> their kit in bridge mode, if not you might be behind a NAT router and
>> can't do anything about it. (Some don't even let you make changes to
>> even things as simple as wifi SSID yourself and you need to get them
>> to do it for you). I haven't seen any that will let you connect to
>> the incoming fibre directly.
>
> So, lets talk about UK's bad infrastructure.
>
> The MAJORITY of ISPs WILL NOT permit using of custom routers, this
> includes all the big corpas you know of. I believe you must pay for
> business lines, and pay extra for the ability to use your own router for
> some, and some outright refuse.
This is nonsense. For the MAJORITY of UK ISPs there is no problem at all
using whatever router you want.
The most common ones where you can't are (mostly geographically limited)
"altnet" providers that don't do wholesale (and in some cases barely seem
to know how to run a network at all...)
> Some ISPs, such as virgin media, do support custom routers... sort of.
>
> They force you to pass all packets through their router, but you can put
> the router in modem mode and then push packets through it with a second
> router, but the router is still mandatory to use.
Virgin Media are a bit of a special case because they're mostly doing
cable modems and yes they do require their combined router/modem device.
It wouldn't really help much if they split into separate modem and
router anyway. And anyway they are moving to GPON (after a slight diversion
via RFOG to allow them to do new fibre infrastructure installs using fibre
before they have got proper fibre CPE ready).
> As for the ONT's I am not sure, but the openreach modem I am using is
> cracked, people spend a lot of time cracking open the software locks on
> the openreach gear, this allows us to get cheap ONTs and modems without
> having to pay the earth for a managed one.
Openreach's ONTs are centrally managed and provisioned. There is no way
that they can push the _required_ configuration to a third party one.
And the only possible advantage to doing so is "one less box", otherwise
well you aren't paying for it separately, it's included in the service.
Just treat it like you treat the phone socket for DSL.
> As a rule of thumb, do not use a ISP which forces you to use their
> router, so BT, Sky, Virgin Media etc etc etc all are a no go, you need
> to find an ISP which gives you a list of routers to buy with your
> installation, or which outright make it optional, these ISPs will allow
> you to use your own router.
BT allow you to use your own router.
Sky allow you to use your own router. (Used to be some extra faff with
sending specific DHCP options though I understand that has stopped now).
btw you talked about contended services; yes fibre services are
contended, but so are ADSL/VDSL (uplink for the termination kit is
lower, often *much* lower, than the combined available capacity). And
backhaul from the exchange is contended. And internet bandwidth is
contended. And their transit provider's bandwidth is contended. Same for
all types of access technology, it's just too expensive otherwise.
Advantage of higher speed connections is that people aren't generally
transferring _hugely_ more data than they did before, just that it's
in a shorter time. So when things are contended, it's often for a much
shorter duration. Have a look at SIN 506 for details of how bandwidth
management is done on openreach gea-fttp for the fttp side of things but
in a nutshell on a 1G downstream service, you get at least 110M, but
in practice unless planning has screwed up or there's a reduction in
capacity due to an outage or something, you very often do get the full
advertised speed.
The actual place most likely to run into contention on these services
is at the exchange level not the PON level (where connections from a
number of different GPON networks are fed to one ISP/wholesaler's
backhaul equipment in the exchange, or similarly for VDSL or ADSL
connections being fed across).
> I use andrews and arnolds as an ISP, most people will be deterred, but
> the reasons for picking them in my opinion:
>
> - GPG encrypted email to support and sales team.
>
> - IRC support during normal working hours, no need for proprietary web
> chats, you can use your favourite IRC client.
>
> - Supports custom routers, they do not ship a router or modem with your
> broadband, they leave it up to you.
>
> - Line metrics, testing tools etc, their client panel has everything you
> will ever need.
- Lots of NIH
- Weird semi broken authoritative name server :p
- If someone sends too many packets at you they aggressively knock the
connection offline and don't allow reconnection for a short time (which
is fun if you forget and accidentally try a udp bandwidth test from a
colo box with decent connectivity...)
swings and roundabouts.
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